you can call them loopholes but keep in mind most of them are fundamental sose yo economic policies, charity, state and local, those things. they're the right place to work. as a budget matter, these ideas of broad based caps on them make sense from kind of an arithmetic point of view. if you're aggressive enough doing that, you can raise the numbers you are describing. as larry was pointing out if you decide to limit it only to the people who are $250,000 an up, you lose significant amounts of money and there are two reasons. the first is, it turns out there's a lot of money in potential taxes in people who earn say, between, $75,000 and $250,000. kind of the middle class. there's a lot of money there. if you are willing to have these limits apply to those folks, you can have more money. and if you have a cap that kicks in at $250,000, you have to consider the phase in. on a black brd, i think you could get up to the kinds of numbers that speaker boehner has mentioned, although i haven't seen what specifics are behind it. but to the extent you start putting additional constraints on